I am Eclipse Rant

Steve’s recent post titled ‘I am Eclipse‘ made me think about a famous Canadian advertising campaign titled ‘I am Canadian‘; you probably need to be Canadian to really appreciate it. However, it makes me wonder if someone wants to do an ‘I am Eclipse’ rant? 🙂

7 Responses to I am Eclipse Rant

  1. Bob Balfe says:

    No matter how you look at it, when a project has “committers” there will always be delay or no acceptance of some contributions. People need to realize there are committers for a purpose. They are the people who do not have tunnel vision and understand global implications of changes in their area. Anyone who does understand this has probably not worked on a large project.

  2. BTW, I am Canadian too. By my own choice! It is the best country and elected government doing good job to keep it this way. Unfortunately I don’t see if Eclipse organization is doing that much for citizens of Eclipse community.

  3. Bob Balfe says:

    Oops, correction on my response:

    “Anyone who does NOT understand this has probably not worked on a large project.”

  4. ianskerrett says:

    Eugene,

    I agree Canada is a pretty cool country and am glad to live here.

    Sorry you don’t feel positive about the Eclipse Foundation. What do you think I can do to help better serve the community?

    Ian

  5. Ian, I am really glad you asked. I is not like I not feel positive about Foundation. I actually feel nothing, because from the outside I don’t see what Foundation really do for Eclipse community. Well some of you are blogging from time to time.🙂

    I think that Foundation can listen more to the community demands, then take some actions and make community aware of those actions or even make it involved. Those actions could be about lobbying project owners for certain features, or maybe even request other Eclipse members and supporters if they could support or sponsor some work on those features. To name a few issues that affects the whole Eclipse universe (besides slow reaction on user’s feedback):

    Encourage projects better integrated with each other. For instance WTP could better use JDT’s project structures, but that will need some cooperation between JDT and WTP teams.

    Another important area is the update mechanisms. There should be common and reusable infrastructure, so any Eclipse project can easily publish update sites with the dev builds for early adopters. Currently only few projects actually have dev update sites.

  6. ianskerrett says:

    Eugene,

    I am sorry you don’t see what the Foundation does. Although in many ways I understand, since the role of the Foundation is pretty unique in open source projects.

    I usually explain that the Foundation does four main things: 1) IT infrastructure, this includes the web site, cvs, bugzilla, etc. 2) IP Due Diligence – most people might not realize but the Foundation will scan all of the code that is committed to cvs to ensure license compatibility and pedigree of the code. A lot of the companies that build commercial products on top of Eclipse view this as being very important. 3) Marketing and Business Development – people like myself, Wayne, Donald that work with the projects and the membership to help promote the Eclipse ecosystem. The press activities around the recent Mylar release is a good example. 4) Development process – this is Bjorn and Ward. Helping mentor the new projects and organize the Council meetings.

    Now to your points. We do often try to lobby for more resources and new features but to be honest our leverage is not as much as you might thing or hope. 🙂 In many ways the organizations and individuals that are willing to contribute resources need to agree that this is the right thing to do. Remember the developer at Eclipse are not employees of the Foundation, they are essentially volunteers. Having Mike or Bjorn yell and scream that they need to do it, really does not work.

    I think there are lots of example of the Foundation trying to encourage the projects working together. Callisto is a great example; the Build workshop is another. I am sure there are more and I think we would like to be doing more but there are only so many hours in a day.

    The suggestion of the comment update mechanism sounds intriguing. I will pass on the comment to Denis but I would also encourage you to open a bug, assuming you haven’t already. Denis is always looking for new ideas to help the projects.

    I hope this helps? In general we would all like to do more. The trick is always picking the right priorities at the right time.

  7. Ian, I know all of this and Foundation is doing a great job helping Eclipse projects. I should of specified that my complains was about not doing enough for the contributors. Some projects has vision that make difficult to cooperate or even reuse. And I think that Callisto made it even worse. I’ve seen it been used as an excuse to not provide incremental updates compatible with more recent platform builds, and especially 3.3 line. For example, Callisto release of the WTP project has strict dependencies on specific Platform version, so it even fail to run on next Platform release because dependencies incompatibility. Their motivation was about using some internal API, but I hardly believe that Platform changed much of that on the next release. So, WTP basically released forward incompatible product by design, which is breaking one of the greatest things about extensibility of Eclipse platform. Those kind of things Foundation should keep an eye on and communicate to the project owners. Maybe even create some steering committee of elected project owners that will have some power to drive decisions like that.

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