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	<title>Comments on: A Solution for Sun&#8217;s OS Community Problems</title>
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	<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/</link>
	<description>Marketing at Eclipse</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Free Sid</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17494</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17494</guid>
		<description>Though i am very late to comment, i would like to say one thing:

Unless i misunderstand, many people (Glyn, Simon, Ian, etc.) are now sounding like there was a misunderstanding on SUN's assumptions of Opensolaris and community's expectations.

I don't believe Ray Fielding had accepted the constitutional work without understanding (read as: misunderstanding) SUN's expections and promises about it.

Its funny to see all these SUN employees starting to support this misunderstanding argument, *after* Ray Fielding has resigned!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though i am very late to comment, i would like to say one thing:</p>
<p>Unless i misunderstand, many people (Glyn, Simon, Ian, etc.) are now sounding like there was a misunderstanding on SUN&#8217;s assumptions of Opensolaris and community&#8217;s expectations.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe Ray Fielding had accepted the constitutional work without understanding (read as: misunderstanding) SUN&#8217;s expections and promises about it.</p>
<p>Its funny to see all these SUN employees starting to support this misunderstanding argument, *after* Ray Fielding has resigned!</p>
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		<title>By: Dalibor Topic</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17433</link>
		<dc:creator>Dalibor Topic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17433</guid>
		<description>zx, complaint registered, #eclipse is now on my default channel list. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zx, complaint registered, #eclipse is now on my default channel list. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Dalibor Topic</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17432</link>
		<dc:creator>Dalibor Topic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17432</guid>
		<description>Glyn, I think the core of the issue is a mix of many things:

* institutionalizing governance before there is a community with a significant number of contributors outside Sun is a bad idea. Even if the governance arrived at is the best possible governance model ever devised by man, human nature dictates that contributors inside Sun will be tempted on every decision they make to take the short path of taking the discussion internally, rather than discussing it externally. Eventually including those decisions that matter to the community outside Sun.

* finishing governance before there is a significant number of contributors outside Sun is a bad idea: it draws a line in the sand where everyone who was too shy, busy, proprietary etc. to contribute is declared to have missed out on having their interests represented. Anyone arriving later at the game then needs to figure out if they agree with the governance, or if they'll take their time and effort to fight it. 

* You need a strategy to seed the community as widely as possible to include many different stake holders in the project,  including those who pay Sun real, big money for open or closed Solaris. If your community and your customers don't overlap at least a tiny bit, the community thing will be second priority to those that finance it.

* aiming for 100% governance prior to aiming for 100% open source means you are looking for a community of members more interested in open governance than open source. You get the community you shop for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glyn, I think the core of the issue is a mix of many things:</p>
<p>* institutionalizing governance before there is a community with a significant number of contributors outside Sun is a bad idea. Even if the governance arrived at is the best possible governance model ever devised by man, human nature dictates that contributors inside Sun will be tempted on every decision they make to take the short path of taking the discussion internally, rather than discussing it externally. Eventually including those decisions that matter to the community outside Sun.</p>
<p>* finishing governance before there is a significant number of contributors outside Sun is a bad idea: it draws a line in the sand where everyone who was too shy, busy, proprietary etc. to contribute is declared to have missed out on having their interests represented. Anyone arriving later at the game then needs to figure out if they agree with the governance, or if they&#8217;ll take their time and effort to fight it. </p>
<p>* You need a strategy to seed the community as widely as possible to include many different stake holders in the project,  including those who pay Sun real, big money for open or closed Solaris. If your community and your customers don&#8217;t overlap at least a tiny bit, the community thing will be second priority to those that finance it.</p>
<p>* aiming for 100% governance prior to aiming for 100% open source means you are looking for a community of members more interested in open governance than open source. You get the community you shop for.</p>
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		<title>By: Dalibor Topic</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17431</link>
		<dc:creator>Dalibor Topic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17431</guid>
		<description>Sun is taking way too long to get many of those things done, in particular without setting the expectations accordingly, or getting the dependency chain of their goals figured out, and having the good sense to disseminate it widely. Goals change, priorities shift, etc. but  if they do, talk about it with the community you are bootstrapping, don't present it as a fait accompli afterwards.

I'd hope that it's just an issue of self fulfilling prophecy, where fear of massive public failure om every step in the way they open up their mission critical products is leading Sun's management to a politician's preferred strategy of carefully thinking things through, and picking the safest option: go for it slowly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sun is taking way too long to get many of those things done, in particular without setting the expectations accordingly, or getting the dependency chain of their goals figured out, and having the good sense to disseminate it widely. Goals change, priorities shift, etc. but  if they do, talk about it with the community you are bootstrapping, don&#8217;t present it as a fait accompli afterwards.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d hope that it&#8217;s just an issue of self fulfilling prophecy, where fear of massive public failure om every step in the way they open up their mission critical products is leading Sun&#8217;s management to a politician&#8217;s preferred strategy of carefully thinking things through, and picking the safest option: go for it slowly.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Skerrett</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17428</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Skerrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17428</guid>
		<description>Glynn and Dalibor

You might be right that bootstrapping a community has to be finished before the governance.  However, I still think early in the process you need to be able to answer basic questions like 'who can become a committer' and 'how are important technical decisions make?'  

Governance is also something that changes and evolves; in fact good governance should allow for and define how change happens.

I really think Sun would solve a lot of their problems by being more upfront about a lot of these things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glynn and Dalibor</p>
<p>You might be right that bootstrapping a community has to be finished before the governance.  However, I still think early in the process you need to be able to answer basic questions like &#8216;who can become a committer&#8217; and &#8216;how are important technical decisions make?&#8217;  </p>
<p>Governance is also something that changes and evolves; in fact good governance should allow for and define how change happens.</p>
<p>I really think Sun would solve a lot of their problems by being more upfront about a lot of these things.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Murdock&#8217;s Weblog &#187; Which came first</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17427</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Murdock&#8217;s Weblog &#187; Which came first</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17427</guid>
		<description>[...] Dalibor Topic: &#8220;Finishing governance before finishing bootstrapping is a bad idea.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dalibor Topic: &#8220;Finishing governance before finishing bootstrapping is a bad idea.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Glynn Foster</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17426</link>
		<dc:creator>Glynn Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17426</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly with Dalibor on this, and I think it's the core of the issue. Creating a governance structure (and constitution) while a fledgling community is forming seems a very, very unwise thing - let alone trying to shoe-horn in a governance model that has worked well for other communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly with Dalibor on this, and I think it&#8217;s the core of the issue. Creating a governance structure (and constitution) while a fledgling community is forming seems a very, very unwise thing - let alone trying to shoe-horn in a governance model that has worked well for other communities.</p>
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		<title>By: Pyun Nguyen</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17425</link>
		<dc:creator>Pyun Nguyen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17425</guid>
		<description>Ian, you are hardly disinterested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, you are hardly disinterested.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Aniszczyk</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17423</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Aniszczyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17423</guid>
		<description>Man, I haven't seen Dalibor's name since the Kaffee days.

Anyway... when Sun realizes that their shareholders include their community members and they aren't just means to an end, things will change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, I haven&#8217;t seen Dalibor&#8217;s name since the Kaffee days.</p>
<p>Anyway&#8230; when Sun realizes that their shareholders include their community members and they aren&#8217;t just means to an end, things will change.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Skerrett</title>
		<link>http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/a-solution-for-suns-os-community-problems/#comment-17421</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Skerrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-17421</guid>
		<description>Dalibor,

Taking 3+ years to bootstrap the OpenSolaris community seems like a lack of commitment but that is a completely different rant.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dalibor,</p>
<p>Taking 3+ years to bootstrap the OpenSolaris community seems like a lack of commitment but that is a completely different rant.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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